Everything I Felt Watching Chimamanda Adichie and Trevor Noah

 Written by Safa Alhassan 

The time is 11:40 p.m. on a slightly cool Monday evening, and I have just seen the interview Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie had with Trevor Noah on his show, What Now? Usually, I think I'd have a lot of words, especially as she is my favourite writer, but it is also for the same reason that I do not have enough words to explain just how redeeming that interview was; one for my sanity and conformity, that I wasn't alone in my thoughts about Dream Count and that the author in fact also holds the same ideology; and then the second being that I can't stop but marvel at our similarities. I simply cannot put it into words, but it was a thing I felt deeply. I think that alone is the most satisfying feeling. To actually feel deeply and gravitate towards something that is just familiar. God! I love her. She's just a joy to behold.

"And I don’t even like to use the word ‘kindness’ because that word is so overused and always by people who are spectacularly unkind. So I will not use kindness, but compassion…”

- Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, (What Now?) 

In my review of Dream Count, I had been rather blunt about how, if Nigerians were truly reading that book, they wouldn’t be posing and making it just another social media spectacle, because in truth, it isn’t that. Dream Count is a mourning. It doesn't celebrate many ideologies upheld in today’s world; in fact, it’s a burial, an open wound, an ache. I mentioned in my review that Nigerians, who are often the quickest to parade the book around, should actually be weeping over it. Our reading culture, frankly, is shallow, and a lot of the hype is purely for publicity and online drama.

Interestingly, Chimamanda said something similar during the interview. She mentioned how people often approach her saying, “Oh, I love your books!” and she can immediately tell who is genuine and who isn’t. She recalled asking a man which of her books he had read, and he replied, “All of them.” She pressed further, asking, “Which one specifically?” Then he says, “Errrm, yeah, the Biafran one.” Then he goes again, “Oh well, I'll read them, but still I love your work,” and he laughs. For a writer, that's the most irksome thing to say, and honestly, I wouldn't even lie that a lot of people parading that book for the wrong reasons actually annoy me. Like, can you actually just bring yourself to read the damn book?

That was at the beginning of the interview, and from there, it only got better. Chimamanda proved once again that she’s a brilliant woman. Also that she is one who doesn’t get easily swayed and i could see that from a lot of ideologies that she did'nt conform to. She acts from a place of knowledge, which is very typical of academics. I mean if you say A is A, show me proof! Her strong opinions and her composure in the face of criticism were inspiring. I loved that Trevor Noah shares the same school of thought as her: that different opinions can coexist, and that’s okay. This is quite the opposite of the American culture today, which Chimamanda subtly critiqued both in the interview and through Dream Count. One of the characters in the book said something along the lines of, “America thinks the whole world is America,” and this interview touched on that notion too. The conversation was a tad lengthy as it became slightly political, you know, with the mention of Trump, (who some refer to as the White Obama), and then with discussions about an American political system that politics is worn as a culture; where it's either you're right and I'm wrong, or we become enemies. This shouldn't be the case. Well, there was also comparisons of this system to Africa's politics. They also discussed America's expectation that other countries should adopt their values such as the LGBTQ+ community without considering that these values are relatively new even in America itself. But then America comes on to other nations, like the UAE for example, and then they're asking, "Oh, we have gay marriages in America, show me your own gay marriages." 

Trevor went ahead to use another analogy of  WWE's Vince McMahon and wrestling fans who were upset when rivals hugged it out in the ring, highlighting how people cling to divisions even when they know the conflict is fabricated. Honestly, during that part, my mind drifted. I found it boring. But the best part? When Trevor asked Chimamanda what she thought, she simply said, “Honestly, I find it boring.” Oh my God, tell me why this woman just gets it! He was even persuading her to go watch the interview and in my mind I was already like "utter nonsense, I am not even interested." There are times when I’m asked, “Do you see what’s going on in the news?” During those moments, I used to think something was wrong with me for not being entirely interested in politics. You know, the melodrama, the lies, the cruelty, the greed. These things don’t interest me, and I find it funny how some people believe there’s a moral obligation to know everything happening around the world just because of your status or simply because you’re educated.

Why should violence, killings, and cruelty interest me, exactly?

Just to be clear, I am not oblivious of what is happening. I’m very in tune with my environment and aware. I’m just not interested in sitting and talking about it like it’s some kind of ritual tied to who I am.

I loved that Chimamanda, someone I truly admire, is exactly like that. In this interview, I saw that she wasn’t trying to be liked. She wasn’t making any effort to be acceptable. She was simply being Chimamanda and that’s refreshing, especially in a world full of lies and fake people.

Believe it or not she was mostly quiet during that part of the interview. Then Trevor said "Chimamanda cannot be sold anything." She laughed and said she can easily be sold anything, but mostly if it interests her. This was a highlight for me because there are times where people just do not agree or understand that we all cannot be the same. As basic as that example is, it holds a lot of weight. Which in my own view is practically what the whole interview was about if you ask me. Originality and individuality! It shows power and confidence. 

Another highlight for me was when Trevor, early in the interview, said he thought Dream Count was essentially a memoir. After reading the first fifty pages, he suspected Chimamanda was writing about herself especially when the character Chia appeared (which he wondered might be her nickname). If you've read my review of Dream Count, you'll see that for the most part i said i thought the book was a memoir as well. Trevor even had to Google her father because according to him, he didn't realise Chimamanda was from a wealthy family. Apparently Chia from Dream Count was born into wealth. Chimamanda laughed but didn’t confirm or deny it. But come on, the resemblance is uncanny and in my honest opinion, I think she left a mark of herself in every character in that book. I don't know why, but I could just see it. It was glaring. Even in her book Half of a Yellow Sun, there was a familiar pattern of academics, wealth, killings in Kano and Biafra. This is also a little similar with Purple Hibiscus. 

Throughout the conversation, Trevor Noah was asking her questions lightheartedly at first, which i think were really brilliant questions but asked in a very subdued way. She seemed to figure him out and responded with grace, clarity, and sometimes deliberate vagueness or by just simply saying, "I don't know."

When he asked her why she chose wealth as a theme or why she set the story during COVID, she answered "why not?" Then corrected him: the book wasn’t centred around COVID; rather, COVID provided a stillness that allowed the characters to reflect. She spoke about being very melancholic and nostalgic. In my mind i was like, God! These are sentiments that deeply resonate with me. I love melancholy. Are we twins or what? She just gets it! She really just gets it!! 

And sometimes, when questions seemed to demand a justification for her creative choices, she simply said, “I don't know.” Oh, how powerful that was! That "I don't know" ends the conversation beautifully. One of such questions was when Trevor asked her why she didn't include the perspectives of the men in the book. She mentioned how a lot of things about fiction just leave open ends and give you the opportunity to form your own train of thoughts. For her, there shouldn't be a strong reason for being. Fiction just exists, and that's it.

It reminded me of my own experience writing my short story I Will Kill Femi. My brother asked so many questions about Femi’s background. He asked "Where is Femi from? Oh! What happened to Femi? Why are we not hearing Femi's point of view? What was his childhood like? Tell me!" My exact reply was, "I don't know." Somebody even asked me "What were you thinking when you wrote that story?" It made me happy that he and so many other people that reached out to me were able to relate with the characters. Another thing was that a lot of people thought that was maybe my reality at the time. It made me laugh and made me happy as well that I could write a believable story. So now back to Chimamanda answering "I don't know." You can imagine my surprise and delight. Trevor, just like me, thinks that her book was some sort of memoir. So for a writer to have written such a believable story, then she has done a terrific job. This mirrors what Chimamanda Adichie earlier said about fiction: it should have open ends. It should allow readers to form their own thoughts. Fiction shouldn’t be constrained by an obsessive need for exhaustive research or airtight logic. It should be soft, flawed, human, and authentic. At this point of the interview, my heart is full. I just can't explain that feeling of belonging, acceptance and familiarity. 

I was just in awe of her. The way she listened more than she spoke, and when she did speak, it was with such calm confidence. You know, the kind that comes from someone who cannot be swayed. Every word was intentional. I honestly wish I could talk about everything from that interview. It was the best thing I’ve seen all month. I watched it on YouTube. Trevor Noah’s show What Now? is technically a podcast, but thankfully, the visuals are also posted on his YouTube channel.

One moment that really stood out to me was when Chimamanda talked about why everyone should read fiction. She said something along the lines of how it allows you to journey through the soul of another person. You get to feel. You get to be empathetic. You get to hold space for people’s feelings, even if they’re not yours. This reminds me of my review about Dream Count where I talked about empathy, especially if you're going to read the book. I particularly recommended the book to women who can feel deeply because the book is actually for women. There are a lot of sensitive topics about love, growth, trauma, vulnerability, anger, birth and even the woman's body.

Lets go back to my brother asking me why I didn’t write from Femi’s point of view in my short story. In this interview, Trevor Noah asked Chimamanda something along those same lines. Well, not directly. He kept denying that he didn't ask that, and his defensiveness was both laughable and, honestly, a little cowardly. But Chimamanda’s response was iconic. She said, “It’s a woman’s book.”

Oh my God, I loved that answer so much. She said it with her full chest. “It’s a woman’s book.” That was a simple yet powerful and unapolgetic response.

She went on to say that there are books centered around men’s perspectives and nobody asks, “What about the woman’s view?” So why can’t we just let this book be what it is? That’s the beauty of fiction after all. If there are gaps or characters that feel incomplete, so be it. That’s part of the mystery. Fiction doesn’t owe you every answer. It’s not history or biography or an essay. The book is what it is, and that is it. If there are disappearances or characters that weren’t quite fleshed out, then accept it as that. The mystery is what makes it fiction. Fiction isn’t stringent or pathetically filled with information backed by years of research. Fiction is soft and simply human. Very original.

You may find this review a little haphazard, without a neat or direct path. But to be honest, that’s exactly how it feels in my head. I write one thing, and then something else I forgot to mention jumps at me, so I go back, throw it in, and keep going. It’s a bit of a journey, just like the interview itself. It's a really personal reflection for me and my joy in writing about it is perhaps in the traces of my imperfection. I feel like my explanation actually mirrors my real passion and real connection about something this personal. It’s not neatly boxed but i know that it is alive in my head as I'm moving from memory to memory.

But one thing you should hold onto from all this is that I can’t love Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie any less. I find so many pieces of myself in her. So many similarities. I really hope that one day, I get to sit with her and tell her all of this, just as I’ve told you now.

Then the best thing she said, and I quote: “It’s also more fundamental things like compassion. And I don’t even like to use the word ‘kindness’ because that word is so overused and always by people who are spectacularly unkind. So I will not use kindness, but compassion…” I think she was talking about the relatability of fiction here. Honestly, this just hits home, and I want to applaud her for the whole world to hear. Even Trevor was in awe. He was smiling that very knowing smile for some noticeable seconds. That was the best part of the interview for me. I was taken aback by the sincerity and genuineness of that sad sentence.

Chimamanda Adichie is very knowledgeable in things that interest her. She talked about growing up in academia and how it spiked her interests, even when she came to America. This was when the talk about the American academia kickstarted. She said it's a lot about money, and the system cannot confidently stand on its own because, well, the sponsors can withdraw their funding of the university. So there's a lot of entitlement and control.

I might have seen this in some movies, but I honestly just never knew it was real. Even in the book, when Omolegor, who was seeking something new and liberating decided to go for her Master’s in America, the system failed her, and it sort of made matters even worse for her. Racism, and the rest of it. Not having a voice simply because you don't look or sound like the ton. That’s disgusting. So money rules America; from academics to the legal system. As long as you're rich, the law and the people are on your side.

Then another thing that really interested me was the talk about accents and not simply talking like others. Trevor said something I strongly agree with: a person speaking in a different tone doesn't make them any less than you. Do you not see that this person is fluent in another language and immersed in another world? Because they don’t sound like you doesn’t make them dumb. And there’s nothing wrong with it. Nothing even to laugh about.

This brings me to Kadiatou, a character in Dream Count, who Chimamanda Adichie said was inspired by Nafissatou Diallo, the woman who was arraigned in court for the rape case against the French politician who was in the French presidential race at the time. So, in an interview and also from the book, she was asked questions, and the system was already biased from the moment she was made to speak English; a language she doesn’t understand or speak fluently. Then, because she was using hand gestures (something all Africans do), they said she was lying. How pathetic to not even give her a chance.

If you’ve read my review about Dream Count, you'll know exactly how deeply hurt i felt. According to Chimamanda, as a woman in America, if you're going to come out and accuse some big man of rape, then you have to make sure you're sparkling clean.  And please, who is? Being flawed is perfectly human, she added. The system only supports money after all.

I am very interested in academia, in women, and in everything Chimamanda is about. Watching this interview made me feel seen. It made me understand that I am perfectly correct to feel the way I’m feeling and I’m in fact not alone. Not that I care about anybody’s opinion, to be honest, but having Chimamanda Adichie say everything I was thinking almost felt surreal. I couldn’t believe it.

There was also talk about some blockheads on social media hiding cowardly behind words to troll people who are actually doing the work. Nobody’s opinion matters to me. And that was exactly how Chimamanda felt as well. I could care less what you think. I’m so focused on myself, I don’t even see you. She said the exact same thing and even added that this was a reason she wasn't on social media because she would end up fighting everyday. 

If you want me to tell you everything I love about that woman, you’ll be in for the lengthiest read. I’m so excited writing this, I feel like some of the things I wanted to say have escaped me because I’m typing so fast, with so much enthusiasm and glee. You need to see my face as I watched.

I love brilliance, and I was inspired by this interview with Trevor. I also feel that Trevor is a very brilliant person; maybe a little cunning, but I am not surprised. As for Chimamanda Adichie, she is very genuine and bold. I’ve read all of her books, from childhood till this very moment, and I felt like she, just like me, grew up. She even mentioned that this is her first grown-up novel where she wasn't considering perfection or what anybody thought. I’m so glad I get to feel all these feelings. I can’t even explain it. That feeling is unique only to readers and even among readers, each individual feeling is different from the other.

Did I mention that Chimamanda doesn’t like science fiction? She is more of a realism person. At that moment i just thought to myself that there is nothing anybody can tell me, Chimamanda and i are related because how in the name of God are we just similar? Science fiction confuses me too. 

Apart from my sister, who discussed Dream Count with me, watching this interview felt like I was discussing the book with the author. I enjoyed it especially because it felt homely and made me feel like I’m finally sat with people who just get me. You know, my kind of people.

I took a lot of time before watching this interview. It was a very personal choice because I felt like my opinions about the book were mine alone. So when I finally watched it and realised that not just me but even the author felt the same way I did, it was very liberating, to say the least.

Chimamanda’s body language was also very playful and relaxed. She laughed, disagreed, stood by her choices, listened more, and spoke only when it was important. She spoke with so much clarity and conciseness. 

If you’ve not seen it, then I’ll recommend that you go watch or listen to it.